Out of the joke thread and into its own serious thread!!! We need a draw...

Chrissy wrote:: I love the respect we show each other here. If more people took the time to just be respectful in their opposing views there would be far less problems in this world. There does not have to be a right or a wrong. Just respect....

I realized something in listening to everyone here and giving it some thought.. What I'm going to say is going to shock RFFB so honey sit down....You are right and i get it now...There I said it and on the joke thread..ha ha ha

Adam has been nice enough to introduce me to U.K. Football and we have had many discussions about why it ends in a draw if there is a tie and they don't just play till someone wins. Our conversations usually end with me yelling ," Quitters What do you mean the games over I have no closure!" and him yelling," Fuckin Americans someone always has to win don't they"...

I get it now..There doesn't have to be a winner just like in life...Go out and play and go home..if you win great and if you dont then next time and if there is a tie then its even ...It is what it is so go home you don't need to prove yourself right....I'm gonna eat a lot of English crow on this one and i still don't promise to be completly miffed when a good game ends in a draw but Adam I think I see your point... It so sad no one is going to back down on either side of politics ever, no matter the subject they always want a winner or a looser..I see now that wow a draw would be nice..Go grab a beer and go home...xxx

So when you did you have this revalation? You never mentioned it to me! And 'eat English crow?' No way. I'm just pleased you saw my point. I often find that the small analogies, why a draw in a game isn't a bad thing, can be expanded into the more bigger areas of life. There's a word in the our language that is often overlooked, ignored or just simply forgotten.

COMPROMISE.

You think you're right and the other party is wrong and the other party thinks the same about you. You don't have to beat the crap outta each other to find out or prove who's right. Listen to each others point of view, you just might learn something you didn't know. You might even find some common ground. And if not, then big deal. You stick to your beliefs and leave it at that. That is why you should talk to your enemy. Fighting breeds hatered. Talking solves problems. Just look at the IRA. 30+ years of bombing the UK. Where did they get? Nowhere. 100% nowhere. They start political talks and now look where they are.

BUT! THERE IS NO NEED TO KILL ANYONE JUST BECAUSE OF A BELIEF.

And I am including everyone in that. The present fundamentalists who are causing so much fear and terror in the world...why? You are never gonna change the view of the rest of the world. To the present allied forces, why did you invade a country that posed no threat and had no part in the attack on the USA? Why did the other nations get involved, mainly the UK?

If someone attacks you, fair enough, fight back. But fight the right attacker.

And I am amazed that America has not learned the lesson of Vietnam. You cannot win in Afghanistan. Even if you eradicate the Taliban to stop them ever coming back you will have to maintain a military presence for at least a generation. And even if you do win what's to stop the Taliban from starting up in another country? What do you do then? Invade that country too?

You don't have to win the war. The problem with the world, as far as I see it right now, is that everyone wants the world to be the way THEY want it. The Tailban want a muslim world, I think not, and America wants a 100% democratic, capatilist world. Try changing China!!!!

Chrissy put it perfectly...'It so sad no one is going to back down on either side of politics ever, no matter the subject they always want a winner or a looser..I see now that, wow, a draw would be nice..Go grab a beer and go home...'

Chrissy, you're learning. Just as I am. Just as we ALL should be. One word...COMPROMISE.

Fret, quick question. Do you believe Saddam had to be removed and if so why? For a country, any country, that has a democratic system to remove a anyone, tyrant granted, from power because they do not like the way he behaves is actually a contradiction of democracy. Isn't that behaving like a bully or even like a tyrant would? And if Saddam had to go why wasn't Libya invaded? Gadaffi was a confirmed supporter of terrorism and was involved in the bombing of the US war ship in the Gulf and the bombing of US Embassies around the world. He's still there. What about the African tyranical dictators who are living in luxury while their people are literally starving? Does he deserve to be ousted from power? And, of course, North Korea? A nuclear power and communist state. More of a threat than Saddam. What about Iran? A soon to be nuclear state, so it seems, with a hatred of the west also. Where does it end?

A good post my friend and you seem to have a similar view to me, but as I said before I'm keeping well out of this and let you take the flak. scared1

Last edited by Chrissy on Mon Apr 12, 2010 8:37 am; edited 1 time in total

Out of the joke thread and into its own serious thread!!! We need a draw... 3_2_8v

all clean

Out of the joke thread and into its own serious thread!!! We need a draw... Sig

I'm gonna highlight the bits I'm gonna to respond and delete the rest...

Chrissy wrote:: Nice thread and a good idea to move it...

1) - I hated Hussain and I'm glad we kicked his ass if only because of the way he tortured his people for sport let alone what he did for the rest of the world...

2) - '...but i do know he had such a pivitol role in arms trading that he had to be stopped...For me like I said when you start doing experiments on your own people to make biological weapons and burning villages with chemicals to see what happens then you deserve your ass kicked with your whole family...'

3) - '...The things she has seen and the horror that man did is cannot be described. For that reason alone im glad he's gone...What they don't show you is the joy that those people paid to everyone that saved them. They were so glad its over....'

4) - Its hard to judge yourself or your country when a. your are living in it and its all you know...and b. as a people your proud of your nation and might not like the decisions of your government but it can't be undone....

5) - When 911 hit you bet I stood there sobbing my eyes out and was thrilled when Bush said he was gonna get em...

6) - My country sent its troops there on my behalf and those soldiers believe in what they are doing and they do it to protect the freedom I have to sit here and write this...

7) - Remember when you don't live in another country there is so much you don't understand because its not what you know. Yes we need change but change hurts..It hurts a lot...Fret I get you big time because this government is fucking me sideways with its "change". Government to me isn't something that ever works for everyone...Some may like the new changes the others ride it out..For me I'm riding it out I have no other choice...If it works he'll be a hero and Take Bush down..If it fails then no one will appologize to Bush they will say they were wrong about Obama and someone new will come in with a bunch of lies and here we go again....

- The only answer I see to this starts at home...All of our homes...Be good to each other and your neighbors...Be open to compromise and forgiveness and teach your children to be respectful of others..That different doesn't mean bad and bad doesn't mean it has to be destroyed....Take responsibility for yourself....

1) - You hate Saddam? Why? What has he ever done to you or your country? Answer, nothing other than say a few words about how bad the west is. He has never attacked any country outside of his own area. He may have supported terrorism in some way, but see 2 below. As for testing things on your own countrymen ever heard of the CIA experiments on New York in the 60’s? They put a chemical into the water system to see how far it would spread if an enemy did the same. Made a lot of people sick! OK, not exactly the scale of wiping out an entire village with chemical weapons but still.

2) - Who was Saddam supplying arms to? I’ve never heard this? Anyone who has/had any effect on the USA? I strongly doubt it, even if it is true. Don’t forget that back in the 80’s during the Iran/Iraq war it was the USA who armed Saddam. The USA supplied Iraq with a huge arms supply. Let’s not also forget it was the USA who funded the IRA along with Gadaffi! That’s a fact. So due to the USA, England & Northern Ireland suffered 100’s of dead. Thanks for that.

3) - So Saddam was a bad man did bad things. So why is Mugabe still in power and numerous other African dictators whose names I cannot recall? Yes, they may have been happy Saddam was gone but I bet they didn’t expect to have wedding parties hit with guided missiles because a large number of people had gathered and it was assumed they were part of the insurgence, or civilians shot and killed from a gunship because it looked like they had weapons and the weapon was a journalists camera. I bet they didn’t expect to be blown to bits from car bombs because the allied forces were in their cities. I bet they didn’t expect 100,000’s of dead because the allies gave them their freedom. There was a news report on the BBC a while back where they interviewed Iraqi civilians and they mostly said ‘Please leave our country. You being here is getting us killed. It wasn’t this bad under Saddam. We had food under Saddam, we had power (as in electricity) under Saddam…now we have nothing.’

4) - Yes, it is hard to judge a country when you are living in it. Ever thought that while Saddam was a dictator for most of the people in Iraq that was all they knew? They knew no difference. Ignorance sometimes is bliss. Saddam was not one of those dictators who made his people poor. Sure he lived an extremely privileged lifestyle but most of his nation were not starving. He put down rebellion in a manner that was not justified and never could be but what did he do different to many other dictator nations? Are they next on an allied hitlist?

5) - 911 and Bush’s great big ‘We’ll get them…’ speech. Shame he got the wrong people. Iraq had nothing…that’s nothing to do with 911. Proven fact. He may have applauded the event but he had no involvement. You picked a fight with the wrong people. It was an excuse to invade Iraq and finish what daddy didn’t. If you’d actually gone after the right people then the world’s problems wouldn’t be as bad as they now are. Iraq wouldn’t have 100,000’s of dead civilians and both your and our troops wouldn’t have so many dead.

6) - Your freedom has nothing to do with Iraq and never did. No troops were sent on ‘your behalf’. They were sent because Bush saw an excuse and had a scapegoat for the attack on New York. If you think attacking Iraq has made you or the world safer you are sorely mistaken. All it has done is stir up a shitload of a mess. The London suicide bombings were unheard of. Now we all look at each other with mistrust. Your freedom was never at stake.

7) - Yes, if you don’t live in a country you don’t really understand it. So how does that translate into, ‘We don’t like the way you live/run your country so we are gonna give you our way of life?’ Outside of the USA Bush was pretty much laughed at and thought of as a total idiot. Pretty much in the USA too towards the end. Didn’t he have the lowest ever rating of any President? To me Obama has a huge pair of balls. He is standing up for what he believes in and he is trying to help those who cannot help themselves. Some one once said Ghandi I think ‘You can judge the greatness of a nation by how it treats the weakest amongst them’. While I did not realise that Obama’s health proposals were only to cover those who cannot afford health care, why is that such a problem? And I do get that someone has to pay for it but is it so bad to help those worse off? Socialism seems to be a dirty word in USA. At its core Socialism just means helping everyone, regardless of wealth or lack of…care for each other and your own. Very simplistic statement I admit, but Socialism is NOT communism. I ask, if someone in your family was ill and could not afford treatment how would you feel if they were left to suffer? In the UK we have the National Health Service. And it is probably the best thing about the UK! I’m talking Government things here! If you need a doctor you go to one. No fee. If you are prescribed drugs you only pay if you can afford it. You need an operation. You get one. No fee. You have cancer. You get treatment. No fee. You break your arm. You get it fixed. No fee. It isn’t perfect there are flaws. There have been cases where drugs have been refused because they are just too expensive but on the whole your health care is free. I admire Obama for having the balls to instigate change.

Cool

- And with that statement Chrissy has proven she really is a good egg. If only everyone thought that way…

Last edited by Frethead on Mon Apr 12, 2010 9:11 am; edited 5 times in total

What a pile. I'm going to admit that I haven't read anything since a couple of days ago, and go one further to suggest that this thread be fucking trashed. It's uncanny that we go at each other's throat over this bunch of shit like it's deeply personal, as if the dimwits that "represent" us; making otherwise significant contacts, voting, writing and dropping the hammers really give a soggy damn about any one of us.
I don't know everything, and I never will. As I try very hard to grasp the light of many others who would see differently, I'll forever wrestle with the understanding which precedes wisdom. The political game is for a very particular breed of people, and I am not one of them. They say all's fair in love and war. To hell with them. What did you guys do with the joke thread?

You all are the best.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4-owQLR3rk