President Obama

Quote :

But can I ask why you supported the invasion in the first place? I think I've said I did also, but only on the grounds of the, now false reports, of Saddam's weapons of mass destruction claim

Well, originally we had no clue that the reports of WOMD were false. We were all left to believe our government at the time & that was Saddam Hussein was in the process of developing WOMD. This along with the fact that he had been committing atrocity after atrocity was enough for me to back the decision to invade & take him out. Just remember this. Before the US invaded they gave several chances to Iraq to have the UN bring in an inspections team. Each time they were denied. They were given one last chance with the end result being WAR if they declined. They declined.

Quote :

He posed no threat to the West, of any significance, and little to his neighbouring countries.

Do you honestly believe that he posed no threat to the West?? He was an out of control tyrant willing to do anything necessary to gain more power. It was a known fact that on many occasions he attempted to purchase materials & capabilities of WOMD. Eventually he would have succeeded. Not only that.... it was known that he hated Western civilization & if he ever gained capabilities he would have no doubt not been afraid to use them. Not only was he a threat to the US he was a threat to the entire world. Maybe not an immediate threat but one with advancing momentum. As the old adage goes....It's better to be safe than sorry!!

Quote :

Also can I ask why you believe that Iraq could have posed a major threat in the years to come? Remember that Iraq did not, and does not have the bomb. Even if it did it does not have the capability to deliver it, unlike say North Korea who claim to have successfully tested an ICBM. What was it about Iraq that worried you so much when it is actually Iran and North Korea who appear more of a threat?

Basically because of what I stated earlier. He was a nut job & wanted nothing more than to destroy the West. If he gained capabilities things would no doubt get messy. They may not have the bomb now but with their advancing capabilities they eventually would have. Iran & North Korea may pose more of a threat power wise but they have more stable governments in place. Governments that fully understand the consequences that dropping the bomb brings. Saddam Hussein had already proven to the world that he could care less about consequences.

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Instead of invading Iraq wouldn't it have been a better idea to go after the despicable Taliban, the ones responcible for actually attcking the USA?

They did go after the Taliban. Bush was on this War against terrorism kick & Iraq was next. At the time of invasion the Taliban had been neutralized. Bush must have thought that the US had a powerful enough ground military to tackle both at the same time?? It's a good question & knowing what we do today Bush probably would have been better off to pursue the Taliban more forcefully & worry about Iraq later.

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Personally I believe that with the allies invading Iraq it has given the fundamentalist nutters more reason/excuse to hate the West, so breeding more potential terrorists. Which is not a good thing, at all.

Well what do you think happens when Iraq becomes free & their people actually get to live a normal & better life?? The idea is that other countries in the Middle East see that the Western way of life isn't half bad after all & hopefully begin to work on becoming that. It's the old 'Domino effect" that worked against communism. The problem is you can't set the dominos in motion until you knock the 1st one down. Iraq is the first domino.

'Scope

Here's another piece of the puzzle: Iran IS a threat....we now have ground troops and bases right on their doorstep. It's not a coincidence.

I'd like to add my favorite quote from a soldier I met a few years back, who had fought in Kuwait and was being re-deployed shortly.....okay well it's not an exact quote, but he said he'd rather give those who hate us a chance to attack us OVER THERE, and have it be him and his buddies (U.S. Military of course) being attacked because they have weapons and training, as opposed to innocent civilians in office buildings. I got chills when he said that, because he had been where the bullets were flying, was happy to do it, and was doing it again. That's one of the reasons I have such respect and admiration for our military. There's bad apples no matter where you go, but I think on the average, that soldier typifies our military.

'Scope, some excellent points there! Can't say I agree with all of them, but at least I see where you're coming from.

Seeing as the foundation for invasion was his alleged WOMD, which was only proven to be very wrong after the invasion, as I've said I wholeheartedly agree with getting rid of the threat before he had a chance to use any of his 'phantom' weapons. Saddam was very foolish to deny the Western inspectors in. If he hadn't then perhaps if they found none it may not have come to war. It could be he didn't let them in as he was wanting a fight? Who knows? But his defiance was ultimately very dumb.

I do believe he posed no immediate threat to the West. If his alleged WOMD had been accurate, then he would have posed a threat to his neighbouring countries and a larger threat to the West but at the end of the day he was little more than a yapping dog. All bark with no bite. He certainly had the potential to bite but he lacked any significant ability to act on his words. As I said earlier, remember than not only did he NOT have the bomb (which was never in question anyway) but even if he did he lacked the capability to deliver it. And if it got to the point where he was developing delivery systems then, without question, go and remove him and his ability to threaten.

I'm not sure Iran could be classed as having a 'more stable' government? At the moment they are strongly believed to be developing the bomb. They have expressed a desire to "Wipe Israel off the face of the Earth", are supporting the insurgence in Iraq, are recognised as a major state funding international terrorism and have made no secret that they really don't like the West and especially the USA. Iran, at this point in time, is a far more realistic threat than Saddam was at the time of invasion.

Finally, and I'm just throwing this one out there as an alternative, Devils advocate again. One of the arguments against the invasion by the allies was what right does another country/culture have to invade another to try and impose a different way of life on them? Iraq had not attacked any Western state and while it's people were living under a dictator (certainly a nutter one also) they were still living in a way that had gone for decades if not centuries. Who is to say that the Western way of life is better? Isn’t that one of the terrorists arguments, that their way of life is better? It's not about one way being better than another and trying to impose one over the other. It's about tolerance and acceptance of different cultures and ways of life, surely? It's not quite the same as the fall of communism as, as far as I can see, the Middle East’s way of life is strongly based on religion and the beliefs gained from that whereas communism was a political structure. The two aren't really comparable? You can change your politics but to change someones religion is a lot harder. The communist states where held in check by military power. Speak out and we'll crush you. Similarities to the Middle East dictator states but still the fundamental way of life is their religious beliefs.

This really is a fascinating debate! I'm learning a lot and getting a true feeling for the American views.

If I haven't mentioned a point you brought up it's cos I'm in 100% agreement with it!!!!!

Did any one out there hear about how the U.S. Congress just gave themselves a 4,700 dollar pay raise?



http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/with-economy-in-shambles-congress-gets-a-raise-2008-12-17.html

Holoflash wrote:

Did any one out there hear about how the U.S. Congress just gave themselves a 4,700 dollar pay raise?



http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/with-economy-in-shambles-congress-gets-a-raise-2008-12-17.html

Fitting.....



Taxpayers------------------> <----------------------Congress

'Scope

Stop I can't breathe!

'Scope wrote:

Holoflash wrote:

Did any one out there hear about how the U.S. Congress just gave themselves a 4,700 dollar pay raise?



http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/with-economy-in-shambles-congress-gets-a-raise-2008-12-17.html

Fitting.....



Taxpayers------------------> <----------------------Congress

'Scope

LMAO!

'Scope wrote:

Holoflash wrote:

Did any one out there hear about how the U.S. Congress just gave themselves a 4,700 dollar pay raise?



http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/with-economy-in-shambles-congress-gets-a-raise-2008-12-17.html

Fitting.....



Taxpayers------------------> <----------------------Congress

'Scope

So 'Scope...tell us what you really think about this piece of news!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

how lovely.

I just read on MSN homepage that some fucking moron, a REPUBLICAN of all people want to tax the mileage we drive every year!!!! WHAT THE FUCK??? It is none of their fucking business how much I drive. They wanna install GPS systems into all cars, which will cost even more money, so they can track us. This isnt socialism,,it's COMMUNISM. YAY for OBAMA!! This is such bullshit I cant even express......The US government is REALLY gonna fuckk this country over as much as they possibly can.

I can see my future now......40 yrs old ( in a year) and I have no job, and no place to live, and ZERO retirement. Gotta love America.

What the hell is wrong with these people? And who the FUCK votes them in?
Sorry if I offended any Obama supporters, but you really need to take a REALLY close look at why you voted for this guy. So far, since he has been in office the stock market is at a new record low today...he had a multi billion dollar bill passed that isnt gonna do shit for anyone. The list goes on...oh my god we are doomed people...do you not see this?

That didn't take long for the backlash to start!!!

He has inherited a huge job at the worst time. Things will get worse before they get better but hopefully he, and all other countries being affected by this downturn, can (and will?) get things back on track sooner rather than later.

As for the car mileage tax thing...that has been proposed over here also. It has not gone down well! Not being a driver I haven't taken much attention of it, but it's a stupid idea! Over here drivers already pay car tax, road tax and the majority of the price of petrol at the pump goes to the Govn in tax! It's beyond a joke.

Everyone still needs to relax..If you could only imagine the things that politicians propose. Just because its proposed doesn't mean it will pass. The country is going to be in a mess for a long time and we have only ourselves to blame. We live in a do it now no waiting society. Most can give a shit about others and only want to see themselves get ahead. We want it now and don't care who we hurt to get it. So all of a sudden there is payback for that lifestyle and were crying.... I watched a great interview with Donald Trump the other day and like him or not he does know money and he does live here. He reminded everyone that this is not over by far. It took 25 years to recover from the Great Depression and when asked how long for us to recover from this he said about 10 years in his opinion. Sounds about right to me. Does he like the bail out plan. He said it was a good start.

You are going to see a lot of people angry about the mortgage crisis. IMO I really think it is so much easier to get mad at others and blame the president rather than taking responsibilty for a bad decision. I love it when people say they are loosing their homes because of what president Bush did. Yeah right like he forced them to sign up for a loan that they knew was not stable and would balloon in 5 years on a house that in a good year they could never afford...But because they got wrapped up in the hype its his fault. I got a bailout plan for these people. If you can't make your house payment, how many of them do you think send what they can. Did you know that this will keep the house out of forclusure until you can re-negotiate a payment. Most figure well I can't pay the whole thing so I won't pay at all. Have some pride and find a way and better yet if you don't like the prices of houses and you can't afford the payment thien I have a solution for you... Rent!

I was not a Obama supporter..But I do have a sense of responsibility to respect our president like him or not. Like RFFB said..he just walked into a mess that is going to take years more than 4 to recover and not Fix...People want him to fix this ; why did he go into office with a magic wand? As our president he is the voice piece for congress. You want change, then start lobbying your senators and congress folks to stop dickin around. Change starts there. Obama does not have the power to change us, he has the power to lead us into recovery. Is it going to get worse absolutely, will we make it...I sure hope so..

The next time you hear of a bill you don't like or an idea you think is wrong then instaed of hating the president and stewing about how your life is over get up and really do something. Call your senator, call and write to everyone that makes a difference and tell them they are not representing you in the way they should and you hate their idea. Get your friends and family to do the same..create a buzz that will make change!
Get up and get loud and be heard........

Chrissy wrote:

Everyone still needs to relax..If you could only imagine the things that politicians propose. Just because its proposed doesn't mean it will pass. The country is going to be in a mess for a long time and we have only ourselves to blame. We live in a do it now no waiting society. Most can give a shit about others and only want to see themselves get ahead. We want it now and don't care who we hurt to get it. So all of a sudden there is payback for that lifestyle and were crying.... I watched a great interview with Donald Trump the other day and like him or not he does know money and he does live here. He reminded everyone that this is not over by far. It took 25 years to recover from the Great Depression and when asked how long for us to recover from this he said about 10 years in his opinion. Sounds about right to me. Does he like the bail out plan. He said it was a good start.

You are going to see a lot of people angry about the mortgage crisis. IMO I really think it is so much easier to get mad at others and blame the president rather than taking responsibilty for a bad decision. I love it when people say they are loosing their homes because of what president Bush did. Yeah right like he forced them to sign up for a loan that they knew was not stable and would balloon in 5 years on a house that in a good year they could never afford...But because they got wrapped up in the hype its his fault. I got a bailout plan for these people. If you can't make your house payment, how many of them do you think send what they can. Did you know that this will keep the house out of forclusure until you can re-negotiate a payment. Most figure well I can't pay the whole thing so I won't pay at all. Have some pride and find a way and better yet if you don't like the prices of houses and you can't afford the payment thien I have a solution for you... Rent!

I was not a Obama supporter..But I do have a sense of responsibility to respect our president like him or not. Like RFFB said..he just walked into a mess that is going to take years more than 4 to recover and not Fix...People want him to fix this ; why did he go into office with a magic wand? As our president he is the voice piece for congress. You want change, then start lobbying your senators and congress folks to stop dickin around. Change starts there. Obama does not have the power to change us, he has the power to lead us into recovery. Is it going to get worse absolutely, will we make it...I sure hope so..

The next time you hear of a bill you don't like or an idea you think is wrong then instaed of hating the president and stewing about how your life is over get up and really do something. Call your senator, call and write to everyone that makes a difference and tell them they are not representing you in the way they should and you hate their idea. Get your friends and family to do the same..create a buzz that will make change!
Get up and get loud and be heard........

This!

Well said Chrissy!

Lot of good points 4 sure. Upscope is still holding out before he rates Obama's progress. But for the luv of God where is he getting all this money from???

'Scope

'Scope wrote:

Lot of good points 4 sure. Upscope is still holding out before he rates Obama's progress. But for the luv of God where is he getting all this money from???
'Scope

He has a little, seceret, printing press in his back garden and every now and then he nips out in the night out and knocks up another trillion...

Chrissy wrote:

Everyone still needs to relax..If you could only imagine the things that politicians propose. Just because its proposed doesn't mean it will pass. The country is going to be in a mess for a long time and we have only ourselves to blame. We live in a do it now no waiting society. Most can give a shit about others and only want to see themselves get ahead. We want it now and don't care who we hurt to get it. So all of a sudden there is payback for that lifestyle and were crying.... I watched a great interview with Donald Trump the other day and like him or not he does know money and he does live here. He reminded everyone that this is not over by far. It took 25 years to recover from the Great Depression and when asked how long for us to recover from this he said about 10 years in his opinion. Sounds about right to me. Does he like the bail out plan. He said it was a good start.

You are going to see a lot of people angry about the mortgage crisis. IMO I really think it is so much easier to get mad at others and blame the president rather than taking responsibilty for a bad decision. I love it when people say they are loosing their homes because of what president Bush did. Yeah right like he forced them to sign up for a loan that they knew was not stable and would balloon in 5 years on a house that in a good year they could never afford...But because they got wrapped up in the hype its his fault. I got a bailout plan for these people. If you can't make your house payment, how many of them do you think send what they can. Did you know that this will keep the house out of forclusure until you can re-negotiate a payment. Most figure well I can't pay the whole thing so I won't pay at all. Have some pride and find a way and better yet if you don't like the prices of houses and you can't afford the payment thien I have a solution for you... Rent!

I was not a Obama supporter..But I do have a sense of responsibility to respect our president like him or not. Like RFFB said..he just walked into a mess that is going to take years more than 4 to recover and not Fix...People want him to fix this ; why did he go into office with a magic wand? As our president he is the voice piece for congress. You want change, then start lobbying your senators and congress folks to stop dickin around. Change starts there. Obama does not have the power to change us, he has the power to lead us into recovery. Is it going to get worse absolutely, will we make it...I sure hope so..

The next time you hear of a bill you don't like or an idea you think is wrong then instaed of hating the president and stewing about how your life is over get up and really do something. Call your senator, call and write to everyone that makes a difference and tell them they are not representing you in the way they should and you hate their idea. Get your friends and family to do the same..create a buzz that will make change!
Get up and get loud and be heard........

I never mentioned the housing market. I was bitching because of the stupid idea to track our mileage. With GPS system in everyone's car they ca not only track your mileage, but WHERE you've been as well. Its NOT the government's business where Ive been.
Besides, it got thrown out, so it doenst matter anyways...

First of all, he has hired almost every person that sat on Clinton's cabinet ( where's the change?!), and the rest have dropped out of the cabinet. Ofcourse, the large proportion of the "other"part of his cabinet were yanked out of Illilois, the land of scheisters, where Big Ol' Uncle Government check came from, himself!!!

Prepare yourselves for the Disillusionment! He's signed the dethnell of A Free CapitalisTIC ssociety in the United States, and all the while blasting G.W. for spending less than half of that for an economic stimulus. The only thing Obama has proven to anyone is that he can campaign. He wants to close Guantonimo Bay, and the prisoners get private worship time!!! The guards are to stay behind these pink road safety cones while they chant and sing and praise Allah. O, and it just never ends, people! I actually read, today, that B.O. intends to cut the National Deficit in half before his term is up. Goodbye U.S. Military . . .

Frethead wrote:

He wants to close Guantonimo Bay, and the prisoners get private worship time!!! The guards are to stay behind these pink road safety cones while they chant and sing and praise Allah. O, and it just never ends, people!

I actually read, today, that B.O. intends to cut the National Deficit in half before his term is up. Goodbye U.S. Military . . .

Guys! Give him a chance!! He's only been in the job for a matter of weeks! Change cannot happen overnight, it's a practical impossibility.

As for Guantanimo Bay...man, the amount of damage that has done to the standing of America in the eyes of the world, and not just not nutter fudamentalist Islamic ones, is not to be underestimated. Americans rarely see how the rest of the world actually views them. For a country that is built on freedom, to imprison hundreads of people without charge for year after year, and with no prospect of a trial, is a disgrace. This has played right into the hands of the propoganda for the terrorist nutters acting as a proven recruitment tool. Imagine what your Govn would do if Americans were being held in similair circumstances? America has invaded countires to release Americans being held captive before...several times. Yet it's OK for
the US Govn to keep prisoners without charge? Hypocritical. Pres Obama is doin the right, just and humane thing in closing Guantanimo. The question you should be asking is what is going to happen to those prisoners who do actually pose a threat?

Plus there is nothing wrong with praising whichever God you worship and you should be allowed the right to do so. There are good and bad in all walks of life. Don't tar all Islamic states/Muslims with the same brush.

I'm sure your military will be fine! There's more than one way to save money...export more and import less for starters! I mean you could always sell your military hardware to stable states like Iraq - just like you did back in the 1980's!!!... Ain't irony great?

You mean he hasn't fixed everything yet? O.K. maybe tomorrow....

I know what you mean. IMO I doubt there are few if any prisoners in Guantanamo Bay that have done nothing. I only speak for myself but I don't want them here on our soil doing God knows what or better yet..Come here claim political assylum and we get their entire family here and end of paying for their lives for the rest of ours....I don't know what the right answer is but i don't like this one!

Also it is really easy to exspect a quick fix when we are so unhappy and with so many little things going on and being proposed like what Mary said about the mileage tax and all of these new bills that local congressmen attach to good bills in order for them to sign it is what gets us all rilled up the most. Its like a bribe..I'll sign this but you have to give us this and then we are the ones who suffer.

I live in California where we just recentally got a budget and you should see what our yahoo senators attached to it to get it signed. One wanted 80 million dollars for horse racing. Apparently it was important for his areas economy and wouldn't sign without it. So much for health care and education. Its all talk until it comes down to signing. We are about to get a 10% sales tax increase here in CA and also the auto fee are higher than any in the country. People will now be buying their cars out of state to save on the sales tax so they can afford the registration fees. My registration fee for a 2008 dodge truck was over $600. Thats just a year.....
It is such a mess we are all like little wounded people and then these stupid bills come along and just rubs salt in the wound...

Guantanamo Bay..I don't know anyone else have any ideas...I think you guys in the U.K. have some room don't you?


Either way it is all a mess.

I watched the Oliver Stone film W. (the George W. Bush biopic) on the plane to NY. Very interesting film and if half that stuff actually happened then I feel for the people of the USA and for Obama. He's one hell of a mess to clean up...

Aaah. whatever. I'm not going to explain or elaborate on the points that I brought up ( it should be fairly obvious that I was drinking . . . a beer) HA-HaahHA! Sorry, I didn't intend to draw anybody out, I voted against him, and I'm not going to say anything else about the present President.

Frethead wrote:

Aaah. whatever. I'm not going to explain or elaborate on the points that I brought up ( it should be fairly obvious that I was drinking . . . a beer) HA-HaahHA! Sorry, I didn't intend to draw anybody out, I voted against him, and I'm not going to say anything else about the present President.

I agree, Fret. No need to explain yourself at all. Im on your side!! I will give Obama high cred for one thing...he is an excellent public speaker and I believe therein lies the reason why people voted for him. He is CONVINCING and manipulating. Im not saying he is the wrong choice by any means. I pray that he does what we all hope he can do, but so far, Im not seeing anything that deserves praises. McCain was not high on my list either...for the record. Granted it will take awhile for things to come into motion. Im not a fan of his though. I feel he has an agenda for the U.S. that will come as a shock to those who voted for him....I have my own opinions as to what he has in store, and I will not be surprised when the shit hits the fan. I will keep that to myself.
The man is not God, so people need to stop acting like he is.
That is all..

Very good points all around.. I really respect the fact that we all seem to agree on one thing. Like him or not he is our president and deserves that much...I think it shows how much class we all have not to sink to a level that would be beneath that.

Watch Congress thats where the change will take place. They are the car..BO is the driver, we are the road....Feeling a little bumpy right now. We should all help each other out and get rid of the politicians that stand in our way! No more consecutive terms for Senators who do nothing.

O'h and on a side note..Pete don't believe everything you see and hear...Our media using our freedom of speach to throw everyone under the bus and slander them with outright lies by twisitng something true and making it look so bad....The truth of all of those documentaries is the people who produce have an agenda that they will do everything to get their point across and they are protected by our constitution. My way of dealing with them is to just not watch them..That way I am not picking a side..
Well I guess I am..mine!

Well, I have only one thing to say to say about politics, you all. LOL

IT'S PUKIN' TIME!!!

Drop a quarter in the juke, and ( horns)
boogie 'til you puke!
Form a big boss line,
It's pukin' time!

Cleanin' woman
found me on the floor,
Can't wait 'till tomorrow
to boogie some more!

So, drop a quarter in the Juke, and
boogie 'till you puke . . .